How NOT To Deal With Constructive Crit

Hey again, Calamareye here with a Ryuu-related rant.

Our subject today? The layout of Zelda Epic Journeys, and the organizational issues it causes. This is a very long post, especially in comparison to my intro post, so be prepared.

Now you may be asking, "What organizational issues, Cala? ZEJ looks fine to me." Then you may want to go read something else (especially if you're one of Ryuu's fangirls/fanboys as this contains criticism of Ryuu), as it doesn't to me, or from the looks of things, at least three of the currently-active members.

The moderator seems to have noticed that somebody though the flood control was excessive and brought it up in the suggestions thread. In the same post, she also pointed out that PM storage was obscenely low, and this seems to have opened up the doors for criticism from the other members.

None of this seems offensive to me. In fact, one member wrote a very long but very detailed post filled with glorious constructive crit.

His suggestions were well-thought-out and streamlined compared to the current layout.

Quote from [Insert]. This was probably one of the longest posts I've ever seen (not that that's a bad thing) so I just snipped the summary of the proposed changes for brevity's sake:

Alright, so just in case you have trouble understanding what exactly my suggestions do to the size of the forum, I'll make a overall comparison. This is what people see when they view your forum now:

Forum Gates
-Zelda: Epic Journeys Homepage
-Rules and Announcements
-Introductions

Conversations
-Japanese Anime / Manga
-Video Games
-Creation Game Center
-Creation Fics / CreationArt
-Advertisements
-Forum Games
-Chatterbox

Fortunes of Fantasy
-Alternative RPs

The World of Zelda
-Zelda Character Registry
-The Land of Hyrule
-The Land of Termina
-Hyrule of Twilight Princess
-The Great Sea

Adminstrator and Moderator Exclusives
-Authority Office
-Hyrule Castle Courthouse

And with my adjustments, this is what the average user would see: crisp, smooth, and with an overall flow...

Forum Gates
-Announcements
-Help Desk (Optional: for suggestions and site problems. Or just asking for help I guess)

General
-General Chat
-Entertainment
-Gaming
-Artwork
-Zelda

Other/Misc.
-Advertising
-Roleplay

It's almost kind of exciting how much this can all be squished down and generalized.

Makes sense to me. He also pointed out that 'The Royal Courthouse' made banning seem like a game and that leaving the staff forum visible to members was just extra clutter.

Ryuu's response:

I do agree with most of it. But the RP sections are supposed to be more extensive, as the "Epic Journeys" part of the name is hinting towards the various RP sections to keep things filed in a more The Forest Haven type way. But I wanted there to be more than just Zelda, so I had the alternative section for those who want to not do Zelda type stuff. Clumping them all together might make it clean on the outside, but disorganized on the inside.

'More extensive' doesn't do a bit of good if all of your members are turned off by it. And it seems most of them are. And for those unfamiliar with it, The Forest Haven was a fairly large Zelda forum that exploded. Repeatedly. I can't speak for anybody else but damn me if I want to hold up a forum that had numerous problems, power struggles, explosions and other unpleasant acts of that nature that now seems to be permanently removed from the internets as my ideal.

Also, if I remember right as it's been a long time since it was last up, there were about three people roleplaying there when it finally died. Ryuu, his girlfriend and one of Ryuu's friends.

I'd also like to point out he was a roleplay mod there. He's not exactly Captain Objective in this situation, I'd say.

Even his moderator disagrees with the layout:

GameMisconduct29:

If I can offer my two cents, I've found if you divide areas up like you have it's extremely disorganized and trying to remember what happened last is a real pain.

On a Zelda exclusive forum, if you divide it further than per game it gets... Messy, I've found. The topic switch per location doesn't really help and I've had a few people (not just here; I've been at a few others with that sort of layout besides here and TFH) tell me it's thrown them off and kind of discouraged them from RPing.

So I'd definitely prune that to one forum per game, and edit the rules so that whether the party chooses to make a new topic if they switch locations within that forum is up to them.

If your mod thinks your organizational skills are shit (though she didn't say it quite like that) you have a problem with your layout, dude.

Ryuu:

Really? It always helped me out in many ways. One of which is you don't have to search through pages in one topic to find something, in case you're re-reading and want to find a particular event, it's not easy to get to page 44 or so when your latest page is 90+, eh?

But, if it's really putting off people, I'll look into things at least. See what can be done and all.

Oh, god forbid other peoples' minds don't work the same way as yours, and don't like being forced to create separate topics! Letting them have a choice? OH NO, THAT VIOLATES MY STANDARDS OF DICTATORSHIP! Look, I don't see anywhere where GameMisconduct said "NO NEW TOPICS. EVAR." If you don't like the fact that somebody doesn't change topics, DON'T RP WITH THEM. This isn't neurosurgery here.

He said he'd look into it, though, so perhaps something will be done.

GameMisconduct again:

It's not so much the separate topics, as I've done that before with different story arcs with friends. That is a real lifesaver, but it shouldn't be required. The people I've talked to have said it's the subforums for every. Freaking. Single. Area, and I'll agree with that.

And being FORCED to switch forums if you leave to a new area is a bit... Painful as well. I'd recommend creating one subforum per game in the series. Someone suggested a subforum or forum or another area for out of character discussions. I endorse this, because you can let the participants work how it'll be out amongst themselves. If they all wanna switch topics for each location change, sure. If they don't no big deal.

This seems to be the opinion of others as well.

Hoodcom (edited the not immediately relevant remarks out; he essentially just agreed with [Insert] that the staff forum should be set to admins/mods only and that the courthouse needs to go very far away):

I must agree with the whole problem on the switching of forum categories for each area... it was always a bit too much of a pain and confusion for me, which kinda kept me from really getting into the Zelda RP section before.

And we have another. Abhinav:

I agree with Hoodcom, [Inset] (sic) and Gamemisconduct (sic). I think these changes would be very good for the ZEJ community.

Clearly, out of the handful or two of members who post at all anymore, at least three actively think it needs changed enough to post and none of the others have disagreed of yet. One of these is his own mod.

Of course, as I think at least two contributors here know, Ryuu can be extremely touchy. It's been noted that if you say anything that doesn't agree in every possible way with his beliefs, he will refuse to respond.

This has occurred if someone discusses Christianity in a way that isn't entirely gushing over how it's the one real religion, or if somebody points out that there's other religions, as well as those who lack one. This has occurred in other circumstances, but those are the most common.

Though he claimed he was 'looking into it,' there hasn't been a response. [Insert] and GameMisconduct's posts were made on July 29, according to the board settings, and as it's now August 24 in my country, that should be MORE than enough time for a response to the proposed changes. As it stands now, I believe we have a case of 'oh noes, somebody criticized my forum and is being MEAN, I won't respond.'

I mean, shit. 'Looking into it?' All he has to do is run it by Zelda. It's not like he has to run it by Zelda, President Obama, the Pope, the Queen of England and Jesus H. Christ (if that was the case I think it'd get stonewalled somewhere between Obama and Liz, personally).

Running something by a co-admin isn't that time-consuming if you're close to them, in my experience. It usually goes like this for me:

"Hey..." "Yeah, Cala?" "I wanted to make a few changes to the forum." "Oh?" "The members seem to think [x, y, z and q] are needed. Can I go ahead and make the changes?"

The response is either "Oh, sure, you want a hand with that?" or "Eh, I dunno about [z]. Can we compromise with the members?" The changes are enacted within a couple hours if the former and if the latter, within a day of figuring a compromise out.

This is all over IM. A five minute discussion at most, unless my friend needs to eat or go out or something along those lines. I think the majority of the readers here know Ryuu and Zelda both have IM programs, so the month delay is ridiculous.

If you say you're going to do something, follow the fuck through. Do NOT lead everyone on and make 'em think you're gonna do it just to shut them up. Grow some balls and say, "I'm sorry but we have no intention of doing [x, y, z, q and f] at this time. Thanks for your input, though, and we really appreciate your concern for the forum." Is that that hard to do?

I need lunch now. Raging makes me hungry. Cala, over and out.

(All quotes in their full can be found here: Suggestions and Feedback Thread )