Proverbs 13:20: Don't Be Friends With People Like This

Right, just gonna jump back in from where we left off.

And if you've forgotten, that means I hate you a little. I only wish I could forget.

Anyway, we were in the middle of Fleshlightarschgeige's pop quiz interrogation.

Arschgeige, by the way, literally means ass violin. Having friends who know a bit of German is fun! 

As per last time, Moonlightarse's answers are in orange, Hoodcom's are in green. 

Moonlightelf: How does he define what is good or morally desirable?

Reese: I guess if I am understanding the question right...he likes and desires friends, and desires to play sports and games.

Moonlightelf: *plays horn as wrong sign* 

... Really? That was absolutely unnecessary. I am legitimately impressed Hoodcom has been able to stay calm talking to her up till this point, because I'm not sure I'd be able to.

I'm sure this is a huge shock, but I have an astonishingly low tolerance level for this sort of thing.

Moonlightelf: This isn't from likes and desires... it's about defining  what is good or morally desirable. How he defines what is good? How he defines what is morally desirable.

Then why don't you fucking give some context instead of being an intolerable pompous shit?  This is a serious fucking question about what makes people who they are, not the sort of thing you'll be able to pull out of your ass at the drop of a hat. 

This is also not the kind of thing THIRTEEN YEAR OLDS usually reflect on. If you're thirteen you usually have more immediate concerns. 

Like homework and middle school classes and friends and sports. You're technically a teenager but in reality you're still a kid at that point.

Moonlightelf: In short... lets have the mentioned friend as example for now... how he would define that the friend is "good"?

At this stage in their life I'm pretty sure most 13 year olds would say their friends are good because they make them laugh and hang out with them. You don't automagically gain a fully developed sense of morality just because you have a birthday and are now officially a teenager. 

Reese: Well, because someone actually becomes his friend, I suppose. Good friends go a long way.

Moonlightelf: Would he sacrifice someone he loved, for a good enough cause?

WHAT THE FUCK THIRTEEN YEAR OLDS DO YOU KNOW WHO WOULD BE REGULARLY PUT IN THIS SITUATION. STILL CONVINCED SHE'S FROM SPACE.

Reese: What, you mean kill someone he loved? I highly doubt that.

Moonlightelf: Well how do you define sacrifice then?

If the only kind of sacrifice you can think of involves taking someone else's life, your mindset concerns the shit out of me.  

Giving shit you love up for something like Lent is a sacrifice. Donating money to charity instead of buying something you really wanted is a sacrifice. 

There's sacrifices that don't involve killing other people. 

Moonlightelf: Also, don't worry... I have 11 pages of different kinds of questions I can ask on a whim.

D... does she just fucking go around asking people 11 pages of random out of context questions? Who does this? Why would you do this?!

Reese: Well... typically when I hear sacrifice, it's when it involves... sacrificing animals for example.

Moonlightelf: Aka letting go of things at times.

... So why did you jump immediately to killing his friends? That's not letting go of things, that's killing people.

Moonlightelf: Who was his first kiss?

Reese: Ah, well if letting go material possession for someone's sake that he cares for, probably would be something then.

And by the way, that isn't what she initially asked. Stop moving the goalposts when you don't like answer, MLE.

Reese: First kiss at his age? lol seriously?

Moonlightelf: Just answer the question.

Holy shit, she's getting genuinely butthurt because she doesn't like the answers she's getting. Maybe you should try not springing interrogations on people unannounced if you don't think you'll like how their characters answer?

 Moonlightelf: Heck... some get their so called first kisses really young nowadays for goddesses sake.

Reese: Well at his current age no one. Later in life, out of my characters, Maybe it'd be Kat.

Most of the thirteen year olds in my life were far less concerned with kissing and dating than they were about SCHOOL and SPORTS and GAMES and ENJOYING LIFE. 

Sure, you had the odd one out with a significant other for a week or two but they were drastically in the minority. Also, just because people SAY there's a problem with kids hooking up super young doesn't mean that's actually the case. I'm pretty sure there's far fewer kids doing that than we're told there are.

Anyway, if Hoodcom's character is not into girls/boys/whatever yet, that's normal. And he's got years and years of life left so why would Hoodcom have planned this rightfuckingnow? 

 Also, I just realized how much of a pompous asswipe you sound like when you say 'for goddess's sake'. If I got nothing else out of this, at least I learned I never want to ever say that.

Moonlightelf: He's leaving and can only say goodbye to one person. Who would he choose to see?

Reese: Define time frame of leaving, or even if it's his family moving away. Because there's too many variables to this one.

Moonlightelf: I think "to one person" says it all.

HE COULD BE SAYING GOODBYE BECAUSE HE'S MOVING FOREVER. 

OR HE COULD BE SAYING GOODBYE BECAUSE HE'S MAKING A GROCERY RUN.

HOW DO YOU FUCKING TELL. YOU CAN'T FUCKING TELL. 

SORRY, YOUR HIGHNESS, BUT IF YOU'RE A LESSER BEING LIKE ME AND THE REST OF US INFERIOR EARTHLINGS, THIS NEEDS MORE INFORMATION.

Reese: Not really.

Moonlightelf: How about not thinking about it too much with all the variables?

That's kind of not fucking possible, because you didn't give him enough information.

I feel like I know what's being implied here (some sort of permanent goodbye) but this could be any number of things from going to take the dog for a walk to moving away to being terminally ill and going off into the woods to die. I'm sure MLE knows what she means, but people can't read her mind.

Reese: Fine, we'll just assume under a situation where his family is moving away.

Probably his best buddy, who is Ryo's character Marvin.

Moonlightelf: Why does he bother? What makes whatever he does better than giving up, or even just laying down and dying?

Reese: He doesn't want to die.

This is a thing adults far, far older than Hoodcom's character struggle with in crisis situations. Contrary to MLE's beliefs, you can't just boil some things down to a pithy soundbite. This one and the one about morality in particular have no place on a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am character quiz like this.

I'm still not seeing how this is supposed to help with plot formation. And in that vein I'm going to be skipping a load of these dumbass fucking questions because almost all of them are irrelevant.

I've left a few of the incredibly dumb ones in here for kicks, but there's also this one:

Moonlightelf: Where does he hide the bodies?

Reese: He had none to hide. Nor will I need to think of an answer for that kind of question. Sorry.

Valid answer, because, again, he's like fucking thirteen. 

Moonlightelf: *rolls eyes* How about dose of hypothesis on that case?

Or are you saying that you don't know your character that well after all in that aspect?

Why do you want a kid to be a fucking murderer so badly? That's not normal.

Someone please explain to me why somebody would find it so hard to believe that there's people who are repulsed by the thought of violence.

Reese: There's nothing to know or need to know for that question because it's something that's never ever going to happen.

Moonlightelf: Not even in video game?

Reese: Him being a video game character? Doubt it. Him playing a video game involving that? I doubt that too.

What the fuck video game does this? I'm asking for real here. In my experience if you have to hide bodies (or anything else) in games there's USUALLY a small set of places you can put them, if you actually get multiple choices. 

Moonlightelf: Tch, Nii-sama[...]

She calls Ryuu a Japanese term for honored big brother and thinks he's an exemplary character creator. That tells you all you need to know. 

It also tells you that she really is a twelve year old weeaboo. 'Nii-sama' indeed. Jesus christ.

Moonlightelf: [..] would have given at least hypothesis if such were case with Ryo... 

Ryo is a fucking murderous asshole who torched a den of sleeping infant wildlife for shits and giggles and laughed about severely burning a completely sentient being for spitting a nut at him. 

That's pretty much par for the course in Ryuu's Zelda fanon, and I doubt that's any different even though he's switched the setting to what I would bet is going to be some kind of Elder Scrolls ripoff.

The point is, Ryo is not exactly a paragon of gentility and kindness. He is, however, a stellar example of a sadistic asshole who should never have been entrusted with ruling anything. 

Moonlightelf: be narrow-minded then and moving on.

Oh my god, she's so incredibly butthurt over someone not wanting to be a homicidal lunatic all I can do is laugh.

God, I love people like this when they're too chicken to actually be a threat. 

[random shit questions of increasing irrelevance deleted]

Moonlightelf: What is the color of his third cousin's aunt's brother's niece's husband's hair?

Okay, you have to be fucking making fun of the guy now. If you aren't, PRACTICALLY NO ONE KNOWS THEIR THIRD COUSINS

Also, if you've planned your character's entire family out to that degree (without leaving several generations untouched), FUCKING STOP AND FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION ELSEWHERE. 

[more irrelevant questions deleted]

Moonlightelf: If he were a tree, what kind of tree he would be?

This is totally relevant to plotting initial posts in RPs.

... Wait, no. Gimme a sec. I think it's that other thing. 

You know, what's it called.

Oh yeah!

Completely fucking pointless! 

 Reese: The heck do you come up with these things from? (Or why for that matter?)

Both of these are very good questions. The same cannot be said for the questions Hoodcom is being asked. 

Reese: But if I must pick a tree, maybe spruce.

Moonlightelf: I told you that I have 11 pages of questions that I can ask on a whim?

Reese: Yeah but that still doesn't explain why, are you just trying to test me or are  you just having fun asking me questions?

She's trying to test you. If she says otherwise, she's fucking lying. There's literally no other reason to do something like this with no notice.

Moonlightelf: *leans a little closer* ....does it matter when it's your character that possibly gets new possibilities opened by the questions? A little wider perspective? Something to think?

So, would somebody like to explain to me WHAT THE EARTH-SHUDDERING FUCK YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO GET A WIDER PERSPECTIVE OF WHEN SOMEONE'S ASKING YOU QUESTIONS LIKE WHAT FUCKING TREE WOULD THEY BE? 

DOES THIS ADD ANYTHING AT ALL TO ANYTHING?

EVER? 

NO.

Reese: I'm just curious at your reasoning on it is all. Though I hope you don't plan to ask all 11 pages worth in one day. ^^;

Moonlightelf: Pft, as if I would. I've gone through one page with Nii-sama.

You brought this up out of left field, how the fuck is he supposed to know you weren't going to go down the entire list? 

[still more bullshit questions god damn]


Moonlightelf: How old is "too old"? (to him)

Reese: Not sure

Too old for WHAT? Too old for the character to date, too old to be allowed to drive, too old to be allowed to keep living?

... Okay, yes, I do know this probably means their upper age limit for dating but god, as vague as it is there's going to be interpretation issues.

[more dumb fucking questions I had to delete. jesus fucking christ why are there so many god damn stupid questions]

Reese: Now, as for this...

"Moonlightelf: Tch, Nii-sama would have given at least hypothesis if such were case with Ryo... be narrow-minded then and moving on."

I'm far from being narrow-minded here. 

Some people can't deal with even one thought of violence, let alone murder. And if something doesn't apply to a charadcter, it doesn't apply period. Such as this case.

Moonlightelf: So he wouldn't even go and defend himself?

There's a world of difference between 'I don't want to kill people' and 'I have to defend myself or I will die, and I do not want to die. I will live and deal with the psychological complications when I can.'

More goalpost-moving. Cut it the fuck out. 

By the way, no one hides the bodies if they've killed in self defense because that is a crime in and of itself and makes you look guilty as fuck. No murder, no voluntary or involuntary homicide, no manslaughter, no reason to hide the body.

That's... pretty obvious, right? I hope? 

Reese: With out killing someone probably.

Question like that one, you almost may as well ask who he would sexually assault... that's as bad as murder is for crying out loud. Thus why I refuse to answer.

Moonlightelf: *shrugs* Whatever.

Get told you're wrong, act like a petulant teenager about it. Very, very mature.

If you're oblivious, that was nothing but sarcasm. Grow up, MLE. 

Reese: Besides, killing in self defense isn't murder nor does it require hiding any bodies. So that question was completely irrelevant to begin with.

Moonlightelf: it's still justifiable homicide.

Err, no? We were talking self-defense.

Self-defense does not necessarily equate to justifiable homicide.

Reese: How's that possible? Murder's defined as unjustifiable.

Moonlightelf: it stands on the dividing line between an excuse, justification and an exculpation in criminal law. Homicide is justified when it prevents greater harm to innocents... and can only be justified if there is sufficient evidence to prove that it was reaonable to believe that offending party posed and imminent threat to the life or well-being of another.

One must, however, objectively prove toa trier of fact, beyond all reasonable doubt, that the suspect intended to commit violence.

Oh man, have you missed all the bullshit with people killing black kids in the States over shit that is absolutely not self defense, then getting off practically scot-free because they pleaded self-defense?

I know MLE isn't American but I also know for a fucking fact news of those shootings has spread across the pond. At least in this regard, Moonlightelf has a laughably poor grasp of reality.

Reese: Still, we've drifted from the prime definition of murder compared to self-defense. Which are different.
Justifiable homocide is like shooting someone because they are raping your spouce.

Moonlightelf: Though it can be flipped as murder if there isn't enough evidence to point it out.

MLE, just accept that this isn't the answer you want and get over it. This is shit people learn when they're toddlers and first find out they don't get every toy they fucking ask for. 

'This is not applicable' is an answer.

Reese: But the original point is, and still stands, is Reese doesn't murder. Period.

Moonlightelf: Well... it's good to see that your mind doesn't allow such hypothesis to even exist. *chuckles* Then... if not narrow-minded... let me correct it then. Close-minded.

That's a stupid argument and it's based entirely in semantics. You're still insulting him and laughing at him for being naive either way. 

No wonder your help is unwelcome.

Moonlightelf: Though sad to know that your character is unprepared.

Reese : Well, you're free to think so, anyway.

Moonlightelf: Poor day when he accidentally kills someone due to some degree of carelessness though... mental health and all, you know?

Where the fuck does she live if every single person causes a fatal accident at least once in their life? I want to know so I can make a note to never vacation there. Believe it or not, accidental deaths really aren't all that common in the grand scheme of things.  

Moonlightelf: And having mind that refuses to even think such possibility or scenario... it's truly sad, you know?

Not as sad as the person who was so poorly socialized she thinks this sort of treatment is okay. Seriously, was MLE born in a fucking barn or something?

I'd rather be friends with the person whose character refuses to entertain any possibility of violence than be friends with the person who tries to manipulate someone for paragraphs and paragraphs to get her way like a spoiled child.  

Moonlightelf: I do ponder how he'll be able to even live with it or even process the entire thing. Because the Kübler-Ros model is somewhat fashinating at times to think through for characters.

If you were half as smart as you think you are you'd know the Kubler-Ros model (that's the stages of grief thing, if you were curious) has had significant criticism directed at it and more and more studies are indicating it's full of shit. There's at least one person who's done a fair amount of peer reviewed research indicating that the absence of grief = recovery from grief and that there are no 'stages'. 

I know she wasn't expecting this to come under the scrutiny of someone with a strong interest in psychology but too bad.

Moonlightelf: But yeah, I'm free to think. And wonder... and be left open with the questions that you refuse to think answer to. *smiles*

'Ohohohoho, I'm going to imagine your character killing people on accident and laugh at how devastated he'd be because I'm a fucking awful human being!*smiles*' 

Reese: Well gee, I could have aliens abduct him and make him into some monster or make him pregnant and he might not know how to live with it... or he could live with it.
Or how about the loss of both his parents? How would anyone be able to live with that and process it?

And what are the chances of him accidentally killing anyone? Slim to none. And that's still not closed minded.

Moonlightelf: Then start thinking. *smiles* Besides... even if it is slim chance... accidents happen. Like last year in here, it needed only one shopping trip and the parents vitnessed their own house burning... with daughter in wheelchair upstairs inside the house.

And one summer... at one concert event, a girl who had just turned 18 got run over by firetruck that was moving slowly through crowd... really slowly.
Slim to none, indeed.

Okay one, unless the parents fucking did something to start the fire, then they weren't responsible for the fire. They witnessed a horrible horrible freak accident. It's still devastating but unless they left a lit cigarette on a chair arm or something that was in no way their fault. 

Two, note that she didn't say when 'one summer' was. I'd like to know what the time frame here is. Did it all happen in one year, or was it (like I suspect) several-plus years apart? 

Somebody really likes giving incomplete information.

Reese:Well, then I guess he could accidentally get abducted by a kidnapper, aliens, pack of underground moll men too, couldn't he?

If I'm close minded, I suppose you are too? Because I recall a few things you mentioned you claim are impossible. If I need to be so open minded, then why not let him hit it off with Kat accidentally and get stuck with a kid, or him get abducted and get stuck with a kid, or call his mom a whale accidentally and get kicked out of the house, or him piss off a villain accidentally and get 3rd degree burns instead of him accidentally murdering someone.

You know, he's just a teenager, he doesn't have to be prepared for anything. If something happens, it happens like in  realife. Ain't no damn-body is prepared for what can happen all of a sudden. You don't plan this crap out.

Only true murderers plan crap out.

You know what? I don't have words.  This sums up my reaction nicely, however:

I may have said 'Yes!' out loud when I finished reading that.

This pleases me greatly. Well done Hoodcom. 

Ryuu and a lot of his cronies don't seem to be able to realize that for these characters, the shit they're doing is real life. And in real life, shit happens nobody plans for. 

The car's suspension goes fucking crazy and you have to take it in unexpectedly, the furnace decides to stop working in the middle of winter, a pet gets sick all over the floor, the TV starts sparking when you went out for an hour or two, a loved one dies...

These are all things that've happened to my family in the past few years. None of us saw them coming, and none of us threw a tantrum because 'THIS WASN'T WHAT WE PLANNED.' 

(I came close to crying with the furnace thing though, not gonna lie. nothing says 'fun' quite like your heat crapping out during the middle of a winter storm. On the other hand I got to hide under all my blankets with a flashlight and read like I did when I was a kid staying up too late, so even that wasn't all terrible.)

My point is, shit happens, and as a person your choices generally boil down to roll with the punches through whatever means necessary or break.

The same goes for your characters. Your characters, in their universes, are people. Not fucking paper dolls who react perfectly to every situation ever.

Moonlightelf: Hmm... you have ADHD, don't you?

WHAAAAAT. 

OKAY, NOPE.

THIS IS NOT COOL. ADHD is completely irrelevant to this conversation, and the only possible reason she could bring it up is to try and drag Hoodcom down. 

She couldn't handle being told she's wrong, so she started taking personal shots. 

Reese: Alright, that's just completely irrelevant to anything. We are done here for the night.

Good. No one needs people like this in their lives.

Moonlightelf: Just asking since you went pretty snappy, really defensive and write a ton of text while exagrating things to irrelevant things yourself.

If we're gonna talk about being defensive and short with other people, why don't we talk about how MLE was pretty blatantly sniping at him this entire conversation before he shut her down?

Why don't we talk about how she explicitly told him he could never get anything done just because he isn't working at her pace?

If you want to talk about spending ages writing things that aren't directly related to the subject at hand, what about her tangent? You know, where it went from murder to self defense to justifiable homicide to accidental death because she wanted to know so very badly how an average modern-earth-AU teenager would break down if he killed a person?

And she spent this entire conversation taking shots, being incredibly condescending, and constantly shifting shit around. Now she's being a disgusting discriminatory fuck and saying it's not her fault, it's because of ADHD. 

This is a mild fucking form of gaslighting. If you're not a hopeless dork like me who reads everything that floats in front of their face, gaslighting is a form of emotional abuse in which the abuser attempts to convince you that your version of reality is wrong and their version is correct. 

In this case, MLE conveniently forgets how haughty, holier-than-thou, manipulative, condescending, and outright insulting she's been for the entire previous conversation and tries to make it seem like the entire issue is because Hoodcom has been short with her when he stood up for himself.

Which is pretty textbook abusive behavior.

Moonlightelf: Just like my RL ADHD friend.

IF MULTIPLE PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER REACT TO YOU THE SAME NEGATIVE WAY, THE PROBLEM IS PROBABLY YOU.

AND HEY, SPOILERS, NOT EVERY PERSON WITH ADHD HAS THE SAME SYMPTOMS OR THE SAME SEVERITY OF ATTENTION DEFICIT OR WHATEVER SO TO BLAME THIS ON ADHD IS EVEN STUPIDER. 

Moonlightelf: Besides... true character owners have their OC's reactions ready to be slapped on table anytime when appropriate situation rises... even death. *lifts hat* Have a good evening with some food of thought 

Fucking christ, you condescending anal sphincter, none of this was food for thought. It was, however, a resounding display of elitism and discrimination against people with mental health issues.

And that's why this has been posted here.  

Well, congrats, Ryuu. I hope you know this is all reflecting back on you! Just like with Stormsworder. Your friends do a great job of making you look significantly worse than you are.   

(Edit May 2015: edited some formatting/phrasing.)

Proverbs 13:20 And You: The Lead-Up

So there's a chance you may not be familiar with the aforementioned Proverb.

But it's all good, because that's what I'm here for:

"Walk with the wise and become wise, for a companion of fools suffers harm."

That's the NIV translation, and if you're not familiar with this translation it's saying 'find good friends, because if you have incredibly shit friends you're gonna look like a horse's ass too'.

I am incredibly fortunate in this regard, and I will take every chance I can to point this out.

Some people aren't so lucky.

And by some people I mean Ryuu. I'm starting to think Ryuu really, really needs to take a good long look at the people he hangs out with, because we've got more proof of one of his friends being a really awful fucking person.

No, it's actually not Stormsworder this time, though I'm sure she's still off being a hypocritical religious wang somewhere.

Today, I'm gonna introduce Moonlightelf!

Maybe you've heard of her. Maybe you haven't. Until relatively recently I more or less fell into the latter category, because I knew she existed, that she was an admitted fangirl of Ryo's (I don't understand this at all), had a half-dragon at some point on Ryuu's forum that was approved despite being a nonsensical turd of a character, and that Ryuu was on very good terms with her.

I kind of fucking wish that was still all I knew.

On the 24th of April, I was given a conversation between two of Ryuu's friends, Moonlightelf and Hoodcom. Hoodcom's come up before as one of Ryuu's supporters, but I've talked to the guy through email a bit and it turns out he's not as blindly supportive of Ryuu as I was initially informed.

Moonlightelf (who I'm going to call MLE, because there's only room for one Elf in my life and that's the She-Elf) had never come up before this conversation was given to me.

What I learned from reviewing this is that MLE is the most unbelievably arrogant human being I have seen in a very long time. I thought Ryuu was really bad, but he's got nothing on her.

In this conversation, MLE is consistently confrontational for no reason, passive-aggressive, manipulative, takes the conversation in places that get uncomfortably close to emotional abuse if not cross the line, and it makes for really unpleasant reading. If any of this hits too close to home for whatever reason I'm gonna recommend you go do something pleasant instead. Go outside. Go play with your pet. Go watch Ashens videos. Just... don't read on and upset yourself.

Hoodcom quotes are in green, MLE quotes are in orange. In the interest of full disclosure, I have had to cut several chunks of this conversation due to irrelevance and a desire to not let this get longer than it is. 

So here we go! 

So the conversation starts with a bit of idle chatter that I've cut because it's not particularly relevant (it's literally just Hood telling her hello and her saying she was sorry she didn't get back to him because she was out) and then...

Reese: I've been practicing, and here's even my first proper shading attempt even... http://reeseriverson.com/rriverson/Reesepractice-color-4-23-15_smallres.jpg

Moonlightelf: Hmm... still little flat, but it's improvement

Explain how. You can't just tell someone something that vague and give them no further critique if you genuinely want to be helpful. 

For almost every thing this blog has said about Ryuu's art or writing there's been an explanation of how he could fix things, and unlike this lady we're not even pretending to be supportive.

If I was going to offer comments to Hoodcom, for example, I'd point out that it's a solid practice attempt at shading but I wish I'd seen that before he'd gotten to this stage because something looks off in the eye area. The thing is, I can't tell if it's the left side of the (viewer's left) eye going too far up or if the face is slightly misshapen. He'd be better off asking someone who has a better grasp of facial anatomy than I do, really.

I'd also mention that the lines look kinda jaggy, so I'd suggest using a softer brush for the lineart so the horrible artifacting I'm seeing blends out a little bit. 

Reese: I have a bit to learn on shading, but I do plan to learn that too.
First, I'm focusing on drawing well.

And practice makes perfect, so Hoodcom and anybody else who's reading this and trying to work on their drawing skills, keep it up! Don't give up, you'll get there.

Moonlightelf: good luck with that
Though... how's the city coming along?

It's been explained to me that Hoodcom is attempting to make a model city for some of his RP characters. That's totally cool, and someone will have to tell me if there's a program to do that.

Reese: I still need to familiarize myself with the terrian tools[sic], but it hasn't gotten made yet. Tools confused me, but I hadn't touched that game (or any games) for a while now, since I've been trying to work on my artistic skills.

I feel this. One thing you want to practice consumes all of your free time and you only have so much of that, and then everything else gets kinda temporarily put aside. It's not guaranteed to happen, but it does. So it goes. Not a world-ending kinda issue here, is what I'm trying to say. Most people have probably had this happen at least once--

Moonlightelf: *tilts head, giving little "you had one job..." look*
You just can't get anything done, can you? *tilts head other way*

... or not. 

What the fuck warranted this sort of shitty hostile attitude?

I... y'know what, I can't fucking answer you because I don't see it either. What is her issue?

If she talks to everyone this way I'm genuinely fucking shocked Ryuu and his ego are friends with her.

Reese: I do eventually, but excuse me for being busy with other things.

To be honest, he shouldn't even have to justify that. The guy has a job, the guy's only gonna have so much free time. Even if he didn't have a job, spoilers! He's a grown ass adult and some douchebag on the internet doesn't get to dictate what he spends his time on.

And there's nothing wrong with taking your time on things you care about. 

Moonlightelf: Typical man. Can't multitask. No offence.

'SCUSE ME, WHAT?

'Gonna say something douchey, offensive, and made of incorrect gender stereotypes. LOLOLOL NO OFFENSE THOUGH'

If Hoodcom'd said 'Typical woman. All she can do is nag. No offense!' I bet MLE would have been incredibly offended, and justifiably so.

While the latter is generally (rightfully!) considered more offensive than the former due to ages and ages of institutionalized sexism, etc., throwing gender stereotypes around like that is gross for a whole host of reasons and just universally not cool.

Moonlightelf: Though seriously... I thought you RPed for fun.

You know what, if you don't understand how a quick chat RP where people don't put a lot of thought into stuff that's going on is totally different than working on a project that takes hours of time and practice like drawing, I don't know how to explain it to you in a way that you could possibly understand

Look, it's pretty simple. This one thing (drawing) takes a shitton of time and energy to improve on. This other thing (roleplay) can be very lighthearted and generally good for destressing. These two things are not mutually exclusive even if you're shit at multitasking. 

Additionally, there's no shame in being unable to multitask when you're talking about multiple major projects.

Or at all, but it's extra understandable when there's a lot going on.

Reese: I do, but a lot of requirements can slow things down, like said city.

I'm not that quick on coming up with things, ask Ryo.

Moonlightelf: I don't think I gave that many requirements.

The fact that you're giving ANY requirement at all is over the line. 

Hey, if someone you barely even know starts talking to you like this, you are under no obligation to put up with it. Tell the offending wanker to quit it. 

Moonlightelf: Definitely will ask about that

...yeah... *eyes you*

...blanking on Reese and his own grandfather?

I'd like to hear what's story behind that one?

... What is Reese doing to his granddad now? Do the authorities need to be called?

Reese: What do you mean blanking on Reese and his grandfather?

YES, PLEASE EXPLAIN. I'M ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SURE IT CANNOT BE ANYWHERE NEAR AS BAD AS MLE MADE IT SOUND.

Moonlightelf: You told me to ask Ryo and I did ask. *tilts her head*

Her fucking stupid *headtilt*ing is quite possibly the most obnoxious thing in these first few messages. It's not cute, it's not clever, it's not charming. It makes her look like a fucking twelve year old weeaboo. Fucking stop.

Reese: I didn't blank anything with those two, all I said is I ought to have his grandpa take Reese and his buddy camping, and let them invite a couple of friends

Ryo responded with "You could."

I have not responded back yet.

OH MY GOD SHE MEANT THERE WAS A DELAY IN RESPONSE? JESUS. THAT'S REALLY NOT WHAT THIS SOUNDED LIKE. 

Moonlightelf: Well... "ought to" refers to being not so sure about it.

No, 'I ought to' means 'I should'. Words mean things. You're a moron.

Moonlightelf: Do you ever plan things ahead or do I have to do everything when reaching certain points? 

One, you're an asshole.

Two, you've done literally nothing so far, so take that attitude and shove it. And spoilers, she does nothing to help any sort of plot creation THIS ENTIRE CHAT. 

Moonlightelf: Because I don't mind showing how pro at imagination like me can do it.... *smiles*

Good fucking shit.

This woman's ego is a bloated, vile, and grotesque thing (insert joke about Ryo that's so easy even I don't wanna take it here), so I don't want to dwell on it too long on the off chance that any attention (even negative) will make it larger. God,I thought Ryuu was pretty bad but at least he seems to have restrained himself from saying shit like this (in public, at least) as of late.

Who wants a tangentially related fun fact? 

... You don't? Too bad, you're a buzzkill so you're getting one anyway.

See, there's a thing called the Dunning Kruger Effect.

If you're not aware of the concept, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is a form of cognitive bias where people who are competent at... any given thing, really. Take any given thing and people with a certain degree of competence consistently think they sucked it up while actually doing quite well.

The flip side of the coin, of course, is that people who suck at shit rate themselves as far more skilled than they actually are. 

Moonlightelf: Though during all the RPing years... honestly... I've never had problem with starting one.

Anyone else smell Dunning-Kruger: the Sequel? 

Seriously, though, some people are great at character creation. Some people are better at plot. If she was as creative and smart as she says she is, she would be aware of this already.

Since I've never been shy about showcasing my own fuckups here, I'll use myself as an example. I am absolutely fucking shit at plots. I am openly fucking terrible in my own opinion, and I stress out about this all the time.

However, I am (according to people who've RPed with me) good at creating likeable, well-rounded characters.  I don't see it myself but people keep RPing with me so I must have done something right.

They have to create the bulk of the plot. I try to warn them about that, but I contribute when I can (which is usually a decent amount once things pick up. Not an amazing amount but enough to keep things going). I am not capable of whipping out massive intro posts right off the bat with no preparation, and plotting things out is difficult for me. So I sympathize with Hoodcom.

Reese: I have my good days, I have my off days. Sometimes my mind seems a bit foggy and depending on what's going on around me how it effects my ability. I do role play for fun, but I usually do what feels comfortable for me. Things that require more concentration just need to be done when I am not pre-occupied, or on my better day.

 And that holds true for a shitload of people, so never feel bad if you're a person who has to do this. If someone tries to push you into doing this anyway you may want to reconsider RPing with them.

Reese: I never been a good role play starter so I tend to keep things simplified, but that's what I generally am happy with. 

Intro posts are fucking shitty if you struggle with starters and plot in general. A couple of paragraphs are about all I feel like you can expect out of anyone. 

Reese: If Ryo starts something, it may be a couple of pages worth of intro for a new role play of his own. 

Jesus fucking christ, I know this isn't about Ryuu but that sounds fucking miserable. So much excessive detail. God, Hoodcom, you are a stronger dude than I am.  There's not enough alcohol in the world for me to want to tolerate that.

Reese: Me, maybe a paragraph or two. (Which anyone else I can role play with is the same as me in situations.)

Yeah, see? This isn't enough evidence to say that a couple of paras is pretty normal, but it's definitely not uncommon. 

Reese: I usually think as I go.

Hoodcom is a pantser. So am I. The times I've tried outlines (and wasn't forced to use them, fuck you high school English 3) the story died rapidly, so I don't usually use them. 

MLE, however, appears to be a plotter to the point of inflexibility.

Hoodcom and I may need to work on using outlines for plots, but MLE will be fucked if things happen in an RP that she hasn't prepared for. You can plan out every single detail down to the direction the character's hair blows in a scene all you want but if you lack any degree of flexibility you're going to be completely, utterly fucked when unplanned events happen. Like when your characters decide to totally change their personality on you.

Oh yeah, that happens. 

I've had it happen with my characters and I've seen it happen with my friends' characters. And really, it should be happening. If your characters aren't changing at least a little over time, you're doing it wrong. 

And god help you if you're doing tabletop shit where you will not get all the information from the GM spoon fed to you upfront.

Moonlightelf: Well... ought to start now learning. Nothing can't be accomplished if you keep being "I never been". Time to change it to "I'm not finest, but at least I try".

That's what he's fucking doing with his drawing and you pooh-poohed him for not being able to do as much at once as you think he should.

 If someone needs to work on things here, it's MLE. Where does she get off trying to strongarm this dude who (to my understanding) is barely more than an acquaintance into total compliance? Her attitude is absolutely horrendous.

Moonlightelf: I'm not Ryo when it comes to making intro,

And thank fuck for that, because I don't think my sides could survive laughing at two of you. 

Moonlightelf: but at least I try.

The implication here being that Hoodcom doesn't try. After she just sneered at him for trying. She really needs to stop flip-flopping all over the place, assuming she isn't doing this to test him or some shit.  

But seriously, when he shows he's tried to practice, he gets shat on. When he tries to explain what he struggles with, she shits on him again.

It's like she thinks he should just not bother.

Frankly, I agree. No, no I'm not talking about not trying to improve his art/writing/character creation. He should totally do that. I mean that he shouldn't bother with HER.

Just because he didn't meet her incredibly demanding standards doesn't mean he didn't try. 

I mean, it's her right to be this picky (excessively so, I'd say, but your mileage may vary there), but it's not her right to look down her nose at people who don't make every effort to reach these stupid demanding standards because she thinks she's so superior. 

That's not okay. 

And I honestly can't believe this blockhead had the temerity to sit here and say this to someone she barely knows.

Moonlightelf: In fact... his intros aren't exactly couple pages, but relevant to the situation at hand.

He kept going off on tangents for ages in Child of the Triforce. You'll have to forgive me for being skeptical here. 

Moonlightelf: The longest post I've seen from him...? Nearly one page.

Okay, well, maybe he writes longer intros with Hoodcom. You don't know that. I don't know that. Ryuu's known to act drastically differently with different people.

Also good shit, one page is still probably too much when it's Ryuu writing it.

Reese: Well sometimes it's too much detail for my taste. I like detail don't get me wrong but I have a preference in a proper balance.

I for one would actually rather have too little detail than too much. Detail overkill fucks with more than just your characters. It can derail your plot and pacing, too. Look at Child of the Triforce or My Inner Life. Any flow is absolutely butchered by Ryuu/Jenna dropping shittons upon shittons of details about the characters' appearances.

By the way, why are we even still talking about Ryuu's shitty intros? Ryuu has nothing to do with this conversation. Shut up about Ryuu, MLE. Crush on him later.   

Moonlightelf: Though detail is still essential, especially when describing a character.

Thanks, Captain Obvious. You're talking to a grown man, not a fifteen year old kid. I'd bet... well, not all the money I have, but a couple of bucks that he's aware of that.

Reese: I know Reese is easy for me to discribe[sic]. Blue wolf boy, who's age 13, brown messy hair, dark blue eyes, a black sleeveless shirt with a nintendo gamepad on the chest, and tand[sic] and black cargo shorts Then a set of matching shoes.

Honestly, this is about all I'd need to know to get a mental image. This is perfect. You get an idea of what he looks like and wears without it veering into 'too much detail, do not want'. If I had any more questions, I'm sure I could ask.  

Moonlightelf: What is his nail color?

SPEAKING OF DETAIL OVERKILL, WHAT DOES THIS ADD TO FUCKING ANYTHING? 

I have a character who loves the hell out of nail polish and his color of choice changes weekly. It doesn't have any bearing at all on who the hell he is. It's superficial bullshit.

Also I thought she said she was going to try and help him practice being less of a pantser.

This has less than nothing to do with practicing outlines and working on plots. This is just a drive-by interrogation by some random asshole.

Reese: black

Moonlightelf: his worst/greatest fear?

Reese: Clowns and Tornados.

Moonlightelf: Why?

FEARS DON'T HAVE TO HAVE THEIR BASIS IN ANY SPECIFIC REASONING, MLE. Some people are fucking terrified of spiders. A guy torched his house trying to kill a spider last summer, and if you think there's a reason behind being that scared of it beyond "spiders are fucking creepy" you're probably wrong.

And does anyone actually know why they don't like clowns? Specifically, I mean.

YOU CAN'T BE SCARED OF THEM IF YOUR ONLY ANSWER IS CLOWNS ARE FREAKY OR CLOWNS SCARED THE SHIT OUT OF ME WHEN I WAS LITTLE ACCORDING TO FLESHLIGHTELF, HIGH PRIESTESS OF RP RULES.

... On the very very slim chance anyone wasn't aware, that was totally sarcasm. You have every right to not like clowns because they freak you out. I don't really like clowns all that much (wouldn't call it a fear, but y'know), and hell if I know why.
  

Of course some fears don't have a solid 'rational' reason behind them, but realizing that requires some basic knowledge of human beings. I'm increasingly convinced MLE is an alien from space wearing a human suit who has never talked to any humans ever.

For the record, because there's been some confusion about my jokes in the past, that was also sarcasm.  

... but damn me, that would explain a lot.

Reese: For the former, I had in mind because one was pretty scary looking when he was a young child, back when his Grandpa took him and his sister to a circus.

For the latter, likely the same reason as me... I never am sure what made me fear tornados... other than just living in an area that had them a lot. Not being in one, but they are very deadly forces of nature. 

Fun thing about tornados! They can kill you, your entire family and everything you own with no effort in the slightest. They could wipe your entire town off the map. You can't do anything to stop it.

When I put it like that it's a lot easier to be scared, isn't it?

I know MLE isn't from the US, so I'm going to assume MLE does not live in a country where tornadoes happen regularly. Therefore, I feel like I should suggest MLE google some of the damage caused by F-5 tornadoes to see how bad these things can get. The Moore, Oklahoma and Joplin, Missouri tornadoes are the most recent events I can think of. 

I'm not going to drop links because while I'm personally fascinated by tornadoes, that shit is legitimately upsetting for a lot of people. Having said that, if you're curious to see how much damage tornadoes can do, go search YouTube for either 'Moore Oklahoma tornadoes' or 'Joplin Missouri tornadoes'. 

Go do that now, if you'd like. This is getting long so I'm cutting it here for now, but I'll probably be here again when you're done.  

(EDIT May 2015: fixed some formatting/incomplete sentences/poor wording choices.)

Ryo's Temple of Lulz: Sporking Time!

I'm sick as a dog and throwing up constantly. That means it's time to spork Ryuu's stupid origin story! You know, this one:

How much time did Ryuu spend writing this up
and why did he think anybody would possibly care?

This will eventually be cross posted at my Zelda/Ryuu-oriented WordPress, Calamareye's Pond, but for now I've got Rinku's permission to post it here. 

If you're not familiar with how I do this for whatever reason, my comments are in italicized Verdana and are in purple. Ryuu's story itself is in the default font with no additional stylization.

I make no claim to Ryo or anything associated with him.

Thousands of years ago, the virgin land was dwelt upon by two destinct
C: Proper spelling and grammar are for nerds. If you wanna be one of the cool kids, write like this!

tribes: Wood Elves and Blood Elves.
C: Once upon a time, there were two different ORIGINAL RACES DO NOT STEAL, Elder Scrolls ripoffs and World of Warcraft ripoffs. Ryuu you lazy bastard.

The Wood Elves worshipped the Deity of Fire,
C: ... Not a nature god or a wood god or even a sun god. A fire god. Fire is a thing that regularly torches woods. Hm. Seems legit.

Ryukenden.
C: That's a plot point I didn't see coming, the squid lied.

They prayed to him and praised him for their lives, be it in peace or be it in trials. They loved their overseeing one.
C: ... So I misread this as 'They loved their overseer'. Ryo totally treats his worshipers as slaves, I bet. 

The Blood Elves worshipped the realm of the Nether and its demons.
C: I don't know much about Warcraft but a cursory google search and a couple of questions to people who know what they're talking about indicate that blood elves in Warcraft are addicted to something awfully close to demonic energy. I don't know if Ryuu's ever played World of Warcraft but I do know Genzoman draws a lot of WoW shit. Is this a coincidence?

It's Ryuu. Probably not.

They believed only darkness had strength.
C: Then they must LOVE Ryo.

The Blood Elves despised their Wood Elven cousins for their peace and prosperity,
C: and were clearly written by some lazy bastard who wants to murder everyone with horrible cliche overdoses.

thinking their Deity was weak,
 C: But they love all kinds of darkness and evil things. Ryo is right up their alley!

 for his wrath never poured upon them.
C: So, uh, Ryuu's implying that the wood elves worship this asshole is because he 'poured his wrath upon them'. That's not creepy and cause for concern at all.

They sought to bring a more worthy ruler to this land.
C: I am totally on their side already.

They toiled to complete their work and the Nether was open to the world. From it came the horrible Dagoth-Bal,
C: I read that as Dangly Balls a couple of times, so now I imagine him as an eight foot tall scrotum wearing the papal tiara.

the king of the Nether. But the sunlight made him blinded and angry. He raged through the land,
C: I'd be pretty pissed off too if I was named Dangly Balls.

rage the Blood Elves could not control.
C: Thanks Captain Obvious, that was implied. 

The Wood Elves called upon the Fire Deity for their protection and salvation from the demon.
C: You're calling on the wrong person for demonic protection, guys. But I'm sure we'll get to see proof of this at least once. 

And lo, light came from the heavens, a figure descent from above-- Wings of four, body carved like stone.
C: Original character do not steal.

The Fire Deity had come!
C:  ... Why would you announce that to the general public, Ryuu. Ew. 

He drew His sword,
C: Ryuu doesn't even capitalize his actual deity's pronouns, just Ryo's. Just saying.

 longer than His height. He then waged his war against Dagoth-Bal. Their bout clashed
C: Their fight fought. Atta boy, Ryuu, keep writing my mockfic dialogue for me.

for three days and nights without cease.
C: And now they're both dead, the end. .. Please? No? God damn it. 

Then at last, Ryukenden struck Dagoth-Bal a mighty blow, leaving him paralyzed! Ryukenden bound him with chains of holy fire and cast him back into the Nether.

The Blood Elves came to him, asking what dark entity he was to be more powerful than the Nether. The Fire Deity was offended
C: ... Really, Ryo? You don't think the natural assumption to someone thrashing some dude and chucking him into hell is to ask what the fuck his deal is? Grow a thicker skin you big baby. 

 and said unto them, "You believe I am evil because my strength is much?
C: Friendly reminder that this was written by a man in his twenties.

How dare you propose I am of darkness! Open your eyes, you courters of demons! I shall give you what you so desired! You will serve your coveted king all of your days!"
C: Wait what?

And he cast them into the Nether, tearing the portal apart.
C: ... Ryo just threw people into the depths of hell for asking a simple fucking question. Sometimes I wonder if Ryuu gets so pissy about people saying that Ryo is a bad person is because he knows Ryo actually is a bad person.

He then praised the Wood Elves for their loyal and faithful prayers.
 C: Blindly suck his dick, get praise and nothing else. Ask him a simple question, get banished to hell for the rest of eternity. I know I've said this before, but Ryuu's idea of a religion really is like an abusive relationship.

 He blessed them and promised He would always protect them from harm. He rose into the heavens, giving His blessing to heal the burnt land below.
C: How generous of him. Actually, considering he trashed it, it's the least he could do.

To give thanks for the Elves' deliverance, they built a mighty Temple with His image in the place where victory was had. They began to give their prayers at the Temple,
C: Where the fuck were they praying before, then? Space?

 and further still, they were blessed. This is the way of Valandil.
C: Wait, what the fuck is Valandil? WHERE DID THIS COME FROM. RYUU YOU DINGUS IF THIS IS IMPORTANT DON'T LEAVE IT TILL THE END OF THE STORY.

We praise our Holy One for our freedom. Amen.
C: I feel really bad for the poor other people who have to put up with him making this shit. Like, it's fucking Minecraft. Pretty sure no one plays Minecraft for Ryuu to wank all over about how great his terrible OC is.

Ryo's Temple of Lulz: 0/10 Would Not Worship

And we're back with more signs. Simply divine! Impeccably fine! Gorgeous design! Signs!!!

... except these aren't any of the above. Sorry, Subrosian Sign Guy, none of these are worth gushing over.

Plunderers will be dealt with severely. Just don't.

... Ryuu does realize people generally don't fucking plunder temples that are being actively worshiped at, right?

I'm sure he doesn't, but too bad. I've decided the temple is abandoned and no one actually worships Ryo anymore, and the last priest or whatever put a sign up telling you not to take shit before he died.

 Isn't that a lovely thought? I know you can't see the smile on my face but it looks a little something like this:

And it feels so good.

Serious discussion time, though: this is the sixth of ten of these stupid things and not a single one of these have anything to do with being guides to living well.

It's one lame joke, and it's followed by five signs telling people to give Ryo things (or attention) or not touch his shit or he'll throw a tantrum. 

... And you know what, when I put it like that it sounds like we're talking about a spoiled four year old at Chuck E Cheese for their birthday. Not an incredibly powerful god. Is Ryo going to actually do anything for you? I'm not talking physical shit. I mean comfort, peace of mind, emotional support.

Why does anyone even worship Ryo? Is there anything in this for the mortals or are you just giving this clown gifts so he doesn't go off and kill you all?

Ryukenden's wrath is very fiery. Don't risk it.

... That answers that, I suppose.

Jesus christ. I'm starting to feel like Ryuu has anger issues he needs to work out in therapy or something ASAP. It's not like this is the first time he's admitted to some seriously worrying power fantasies. 

When he replies to your gift, heed is[sic] words. He will smile.

So is Ryuu saying you make an offering, Ryo gives you advice, and then you have to take it? Is "he will smile if you take his advice" implying Ryo will go off if you don't? There's a lot of ways this can be read. If Ryuu can write a billion signs worth of shitty origin stories he can clarify this.

Regardless, this is the first sign that implies you'll get something in return for worshiping him. I... don't really know what to tell you.

I've always assumed (generally good) deity characters would have a give-and-take relationship with their followers. If you're generally a good person you'll get prayers answered once in a while, offerings are greatly appreciated without any vague, unspecified extra conditions, you get peace of mind and comfort, etc.

But I'm not seeing much if any of that here. It seems like nearly every part of the religion Ryuu's made up is based on Ryo ruling either through fear or extreme amounts of control.

That's not unhealthy at all.

Incidentally, that was a lie. 

When he is pleased, he may grant a wish in his abilities.

I'm seeing an issue here. Well, beyond the grammar. That's a given at this point, though.

The question I want answered? What the hell are Ryo's abilities besides burning things and dumping innocent people into a hellish demonic dimension for daring to ask a question? 

Is he really just saying he'll make people suffer/die for you? Or is there something Ryuu didn't mention because he was preoccupied with blathering on and on about Ryo's backstory?

There's so much missing information here. 

When he appears in the town, revere his presence.

... 

There's so much arrogance on display here words fail me. Fuck off, Ryuu. It is beyond my comprehension how or why anyone puts up with this insufferable asstaco anymore.

Why aren't the offerings and sacrifices and prayers enough? If you're a loving benevolent deity and pay a visit to your worshipers, shouldn't you be aware enough to realize that making them stop everything to praise you EVEN MORE is going to fuck up their livelihood?

I'd think respect would cover it especially if you've been leaving offerings and sacrifices, but that's not enough for Ryuu, I guess. Gotta have fuckin' mindless adulation because his ego is even more bloated than his ridiculous fancharacter.

Fuck this noise.

We have ten commandments here, and I made a pie chart to show how they break down:

... Oh dear.

That's not really a good sign, is it. 

I've heard the religion-as-an-abusive-relationship metaphor before, but damn me if this isn't awfully close to actually being one. 

You have to tell Ryo how great he is constantly, and he's got no problem issuing threats to scare you into obeying. He's thrown people into what amounts to hell for asking basic questions, for fuck's sake. Ryo rules through fear and control and occasionally tosses you a bone. This is not healthy.

The worst part for me is that unlike in the religion-as-an-abusive-relationship metaphor, Ryo actually exists and visits the town where his temple is located. What happens if you stop worshiping this guy?  How fucked are you then, considering everything else? 

If Ryuu was trying to create a religion of peace and love formed around a benevolent deity character, Ryuu failed on pretty much every possible count. 

... Unless...

There's always the possibility this is what Ryuu thinks a healthy loving relationship actually looks like.

... and holy fuck, that is NOT a train of thought I'd like to continue. Nope. I'm not going there tonight or ever.

Which means that's all there is to say on this subject, so I'll see you around. 

EDIT (2/2): It came to my attention that I appear to have missed a commandment:

 Ignoring thy deity's words is not a way to please him

I'm not entirely sure how I missed this, but I did. Regardless, I'm not going to go into great detail on this one, but it sounds like a four year old in timeout screaming for Mommy's attention. 

It's cut from exactly the same cloth as the other stuff, and I don't think I need to go into it any further than that, really.